Hrmmm. Interesting perspective, anon.
Exactly why wouldn’t “a god” (if there was one) not make people for the purpose of going to “hell”?? What prevents any “god” or “higher being” from creating a life form for whatever reason he pleases whether we, a mere insignificant fraction of a speck of dirt in this vast universe, deem it morally “good” or “bad”?
What if a higher being wanted to make maggots for the sole purpose of eating shit for the rest of that maggots life and be hated by every other creation? And be at the bottom of the food chain for a creation that looks free and flies past the boundaries of the earth? A creation that isn’t chained to the ground to eat shit off of the ground?
Oh wait… ^_~
Furthermore, in the context of Christianity: if your conclusion that the Christian God’s sole purpose for people is to go to hell, I’m afraid you’ve failed the SAT literary critical thinking questions for your poor understanding of the Biblical text.
When in fact, it is very clearly written in the Bible that the Christian God’s desire for mankind is the following:
- We are created in the likeness of God, and therefor His children. We bear His likeness, His name, and ultimately His glory. “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.” - Romans 8:16-17.
- God wants us to meet Him, know Him, and be with Him in His kingdom. “beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” 1 John 3:2
- God gave everyone the gift and promise of eternal life so that we can be with Him. “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” - Romans 6:23
- God doesn’t want to lose any of His children to sin. He does not want any child to go to hell. No child left behind!! “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9
- God created us for Himself and for His own glory. Really… there shouldn’t be any justification why He created anything because He’s God. Duh. He can do whatever the heck he wants! “For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.” - Colossians 1:16
- Despite the fact that NO ONE deserves anything that God has given them, and every single human being deserves to rot in hell for eternity in pain. “…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” - Romans 3:23
- So why did God give us this amazing gift despite humans being the worst possible scum of the Earth? Because God loves His creation. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” - John 3:16
There you go anon. Now you have the tools to NOT scribble in the bubble that says, the Christian God of the Bible wants to damn all of humanity to hell. You’re welcome. ^_~
Lastly, don’t you think it’s rather illogical to conclude that a higher being can’t possibly exist because their purpose for humans is a “bad” purpose? That’s like saying, if there was a great powerful ruler such as Hitler then he wouldn’t kill innocent people! Therefor he can’t exist!
You should ask yourself: are Christians really the ones trying to feel better about our “pointless existence” by making up some god and all those concepts of a better life outside of this one? Or are you trying to make yourself feel better by justifying the non-existence of a higher being for the lack of a utopia that this world really is because you feel ENTITLED to good things? (ie: you feel entitled to wealth and riches, not suffering and disease) Also because you might not be able to fathom and/or accept that bad things happen to good people?
I don’t know anon, very interesting discussion you’ve brought here. Thank you! Looking forward to your response. :)
I’ve encountered a lot of pick-&-choose Christians lately, which weirds me out so much. Like, when it comes to big Us versus Them issues like gay marriage & abortion & even stuff like minimum wage & food stamps, people are so eager to use the Bible to back up their arguments. But dude, taken out…
You raise some valid points, thewhowork. There are definitely disagreements among different sects of Christianity. Some people believe one thing, others have other rules they abide by. Some Christians are strict, others are lenient. The first point I’d like to make is that it’s completely unfair to lump ALL Christians into one category. Christian denominations are just as diverse as the nations living in America.
My second point is going to be about your background. I feel strongly that it’s safe to assume you’re not religious, you don’t attend any kind of church on a regular basis, and you haven’t studied the Bible on an intermediate level beyond just a basic World Religions college course. Do you know why I’m pretty solid with this assumption? Let me tell you why.
"But if you’re going to use the Bible to say that something is unquestionably sinful, & certainly an abomination, why do you get to pick & choose? What gives you the authority to determine which of these “laws” apply to us today, & which don’t? Enlighten me."
That right there, stranger. Now, please don’t take offence to this or feel like I’m attacking you because I’m not. My post is not to argue but to solely inform. I’m actually completely agreeing with you. There are a lot of people who DO nit-pick Scripture and use Scripture out of context to back up their actions. However, I feel it’s mostly the people who do not have a solid understanding of the Christian religion or about the Bible who do this. That particular quote is a dead giveaway about who has a solid education about the Christian religion, regardless if they are Christian themselves or not.
I can’t speak about ALL Christians when I try to explain the rest of my post. But I think my viewpoint covers most Christian sects. Personally, my denomination is Pentecostal.
The Bible is God’s inspired word. It is supposed to be the truth and the light in a Christian’s life. Therefor it’s concluded that whatever is written in the Bible is supposed to be there because it’s what God wants us to know. I’ve been taught that the Bible has divisions: Law, Historical, Poetic, Prophetic… and I think I might be missing another one. The Old Testament in general can be categorized as HISTORY. More importantly, it recounts the days of the formation of God’s chosen people from captivity into a flourishing nation: The Israelites. God made a covenant with THESE specific people, and this covenant became known as The Law. The Israelites would only receive God’s promise IF and ONLY IF they obeyed God.
Before I get any further, sin = disobedience. Eve didn’t get punished because she ate bad fruit. She was punished because she disobeyed God’s command.
God commanded His people, the Israelites, not to do a bunch of things. The Israelites were bound to this set of physical laws so that they could stay “clean” and righteous before God. A man couldn’t do so much as to touch a woman on her period because he would become “unclean”, whatever that means. The Law is very complicated and has many divisions for ceremonial laws, health codes, moral codes, etc. It is basically impossible today to be able to understand all of these laws accurately. Of course the Israelites failed to follow all of these Laws. How could they? They were only human. They lived in sin, in uncleanliness, and disobeyed God. In order to atone for those sins the Israelites would offer burned sacrifices, usually some kind of pig or sheep or other animal.
So historically, according to the Bible, God made a better covenant. He sent His son Jesus Christ to be the ultimate sacrifice and fulfill the Law not replace it. The New Testament does not nullify the Old Testament. This is what pretty much all Christians believe. There is argument over if Jesus’s sacrifice means that the old Law 100% doesn’t apply to modern day humans, if only some of it applies, or if all of it applies because of this lack of understanding. Different people will understand the ramifications of the Law in different ways.
What I have been taught is that the Law has not been done away with, but your salvation is not through the physical works and physical fulfillment of the old Law. This means that even if you didn’t do all of the things the Law says not to do, you wouldn’t be saved. So if I go all my life wearing only 1 fabric that doesn’t ensure my salvation. The new covenant that God made with humanity is that everyone gets saved through Jesus Christ alone, descendants of Israelites or non-Israelites. Everyone gets saved by faith, not by works. When people rely on the Law for their salvation they basically disregard Jesus Christ’s sacrifice as if it was a waste.
I’ve also been taught that you can’t just willy nilly live a life full of sin and expect to be saved. The Christian life is about obeying God, and trying to live a life of righteousness with no sin. With faith comes obedience. Obviously this is impossible to be 100% sin free all the time, hence why you’re given the gift of Grace. But Christians aren’t to accept God as their father and accept Jesus as their savior just to continue choosing to live in sin. That’s a contradiction. Keep in mind, some Christian sects believe otherwise. There are some Christian sects that believe you’re saved even if you live a reckless life. Some Christians believe that you need to be baptized and other things along with having faith.
So where does homosexuality fall into this and all the other sins Christians seem to nit-pick about? Well, the New Testament has several places where it is written that homosexuality is a sin. Sexual immorality was a sin for humans before it was put in writing, it was a sin to the Israelites, and it’s still a sin for all of God’s people according to the Bible. When it comes to marriage, Biblically a marriage is between a man and a woman. A marriage on paper between the same sex is not a marriage in God’s eyes when it comes to the Christian religion. It is written that marriage is specifically between a man and a woman. It is written that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven (God’s promise). Sexual immorality, homosexuality, getting drunk, lying, stealing, deceiving, being greedy, worshiping other idols or gods, pursuit of only physical pleasure, and other “works of the flesh” are all considered impure and unrighteous in the eyes of God as written in the New Testament. In Colossians 2:13 it’s basically saying that Jesus paid the price for your sins. And that you are no longer penalized by certain actions that were ceremonial/moral/ethical/health codes under the Law. Whereas the Law of the Old Testament said you are not clean if you eat fat, Jesus says in Mark 7:14-23 that anything that enters a human body from the outside cannot make him impure. Because sin is born in the heart, not in the stomach.For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishnes. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.
Hence why a lot of Christians interpret this as a lot of the law codes not applying. But I will repeat again: different Christian sects interpret the Bible differently so our views may differ. Abortion is a really divided topic. Some Christians believe it’s murder and therefor a sin, others believe it’s okay. The views and actions of ONE Christian does not apply to ALL Christians.
You see stranger, nit picking really goes both ways as I’ve pointed out the nit picking you’ve done in your posts and have reasonably explained exactly why Christians believe what they believe in terms of the issue between the Laws in the Old Testament and the commandments of the New Testament. It’s not enough to just read random text from the Bible and make conclusions out of context—which is extremely easy to do when you simply don’t have proper knowledge about what the Bible is, what Christian religions believe, when you don’t understand what Jesus Christ stands for in the Christian religion, and are just all around ignorant because you lack the proper training and education. Don’t worry, a lot of Christians do this too! And it’s a HUGE HUGE HUGE pet peeve of mine—when people who don’t know much about the Bible or Christianity but make silly comments about the religion based on bad stereotypical information. “Why do you nit pick and say homosexuality is a sin when Old Testament says that eating bacon is also a sin too! You can’t nit pick like that.” This my dear is one of those bad stereotypical assumptions.
My opinion is that homosexuality is an “outward” sin. Meaning people wear it on the outside, flaunt it, showcase it, etc, so it gets a lot of negative attention. Homosexuality is not like lying, getting drunk alone in your room, watching pornography on your computer, sleeping around, cheating on your spouse, etc. Why? Because those things are hidden sins. No one can know you engage in those sins just by looking at you, and I’m sure it doesn’t come up in regular conversation that you admit to watching porn at home every night or that you cheat on your significant other. Yes, we all sin. But humans tend to hide most of their sins.
I personally relate homosexuality in the same respect as prostitution for the sake of creating an analogy for you. Both are sins of sexual immorality. Prostitution is an “outward” sin just like homosexuality. You know when someone engages in prostitution because you see hookers walking around on the streets at night. Our current society generally views prostitution as disgusting and vile. In some parts of the world it’s illegal and has serious consequences if you’re caught. If your son or daughter came up to you and said, “mom, dad, I’m a full-time prostitute. That’s how I make a living.” 90% of parent reactions would be negative. They would want their son or daughter not to engage in prostitution because they love him/her and believe it is wrong. Now please don’t get the wrong idea here and rage at me. I’m not saying homosexuality is like prostitution. But I’m comparing the similarities in how our society views it and why it is a more controversial topic in Christian religion than something like lying, stealing, watching porn at home, etc.
When you outwardly admit, “hi I am a homosexual” what that translates to is, “hi I am openly choosing to engage in sexual immorality, go against God’s command, and live in sin.” For this reason Christians react negatively, much like the parent of a child who chooses to engage in prostitution. They don’t want you to live in sin because they love you. Christians basically have a duty to tell you, “hey you’re sinning.. I’m not judging you but you need to realize what you’re doing is unrighteous, you need to repent, ask for forgiveness, and leave this life of sin.” Though there are some Christians who believe homosexual isn’t a sin and that’s something you have to figure out for yourself. You also need to realize that every single human is born into sin and burdened with sin. You may be shaking your head right now saying, “but I don’t choose to be this way. I can’t help it.” I’m telling you right now that the Christian life is a life of suffering. Believe me, I get sexual urges too. I can’t help it! It’s a biological fleshly desire. But guess what? I don’t act on those urges because that would be sinning after I’ve accepted Jesus Christ as my savior. That right there is the perspective of the typical Christian when it comes to homosexuality being a sin. You may not agree with that perspective. But that is what our religion has taught us.
The last point I would like to make is that just because something is a sin does not mean that anyone has a free pass to put down these people, harass them, degrade them, or disregard the commandment to “love your neighbor as yourself.”. People are people irregardless of what sin they are held captive of. Christians who live in faith will not act out on their fleshly desires with hatred and anger. Instead they will treat people with love, joy, peace, gentleness, and goodness.
As for Christians who nit pick parts of the Bible, you fall into the same boat! A lot of people like to quote the verse that says you only need to have faith and you will be saved. Another one is “you shall not judge”. Well, what about the rest of what is written in the New Testament? What about the emphasis on dead faith? What about the emphasis on fleshy desires bringing death? What about the other commandments and teachings? Ultimately, yeah it comes down to individual understanding of the Bible and what the Scripture means. Like I said before, many sects believe you only need faith and can live in sin, while others believe otherwise. My point here is that Christians (non-Christians too) often only read a small snippet of a verse and take it at face value instead of closely studying the meaning and asking God to open them to the truth. This is a pet peeve of mine too.
Anyway, I know this turned into an essay. But I really wanted to thoroughly explain the misconceptions a lot of people have about Christianity, the Bible, and Jesus Christ. I hope my post sheds some light on your understanding about nit picking Scripture out of context and why it may seem hypocritical to you when you don’t know the storyline in the Bible, or the significance of the changes between the Old Testament, New Testament, or Jesus Christ’s sacrifice. For this reason it makes absolutely no sense to use “But if you’re going to use the Bible to say that something is unquestionably sinful, & certainly an abomination, why do you get to pick & choose? What gives you the authority to determine which of these ‘laws’ apply to us today, & which don’t? Like, you don’t get to pick something that supports your arguments, hatred, & ignorance, but ignore other things that you don’t like/can’t adhere to.” as your argument when debating in a Christian context. Making that kind of statement simply emphasizes your ignorance of Christian religion and it sticks out like a bright red ketchup stain on a white t-shirt, just so you know.
Eight days ago I was living on a little island in the caribbean. Each day I would wake up and brush my teeth with the tap water we were told would make Americans sick. I would worship with believers from all over. We would share a meal together, laugh. I would stand in the back of a truck as we drove to the village that feels like my hometown. I would unlock the gate and greet each child as they chanted “ra-quel! ra-quel!” upon my arrival. I would do my best with spanish as I taught twelve precious three-year-olds the letters of their alphabet and bible verses that corresponded. I made it a point to take a minute every now and again to sit quietly and watch them interact with one another. As my spanish improved throughout the summer I began to better understand their conversations with each other. I learned how funny they are! And how intelligent, sassy, and valuable they are.
My heart grew heavy with a thick love for them. I learned of their stories and their families and my heart grew heavier and heavier until it sunk into the Dominican soil of that village and took root there. There is such complexity and beauty and struggle woven into each story I learned. Our God is so big in the ways He works in each life simultaneously.
This is wonderful.
You see, the problem with this argument when presented to a Christian who follows the Bible is “the Bible was written by rich men,” because it rejects the beliefs Christians hold, which is that the Bible is written by men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and the word written is God breathed. To a Christian the Bible is the word of God—it’s the only truth. For a Christian to deny the Bible is to deny God and His word. The Bible is a huge part of having a relationship with God. That is why Christians rely on the Bible so much. However, simply having a relationship with God isn’t simply restricted to reading the Bible and that’s it. There’s so much more! I hope this helps you better understand our faith. :)
To be honest I don’t remember a time when I didn’t believe in God. I’ve had rough patches where I’ve questioned my faith and certain details, but never believed “there is no God”.
I was raised in a Christian household so I was exposed to Christianity at a very young age.
It is written that faith comes through hearing the word of God.
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. - Romans 10:17
Ahh that sounds really awesome!! I wish you all the best with your novel dear. Definitely hit me up when it gets published. I’d check it out.
As for ideas, how about some of these?
Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I hope this helps! :)
Something I read today really touched my heart.
“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
and naked I will depart.
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
may the name of the LORD be praised.” - Job 1:21
The Lord gave; may the name of the Lord be praised. The Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.
As Christians, we’ve grown accustomed to giving thanks when something good happens in our lives—a prayer gets answers, we wake up able to live another day, there’s food on our table, we are blessed. We praise God because we are happy that He has given us necessities and privileges in life. But what about when something bad happens? A death, a car accident, hurt, betrayal, divorce, a natural disaster that destroys an entire city, war, a famine. What then? Oftentimes we neglect to praise God in times of hardships, and more often than not, we put the blame on, and even hate, God for putting us through such trials. People, even those who don’t even believe in Him, accuse God of all the negative aspects of life and make Him out to be unjust. Why are millions of people starving? Why do innocent children die of disease? Why did my child get hit by a drunk driver? Why did my marriage end in a divorce? Why did God send that tornado which destroyed thousands of homes and killed a dozen people? Oftentimes we get so hung up on the “Lord takes away” part that we forget that the Lord gives. HE GIVES! He has given you everything you have—He has given you, and anyone else who came through their mother’s womb, the breath of life. He has given the opportunity for eternal life. And that alone should be enough to give Him praise and glory. When the Lord gives, give him praise—and when the Lord takes away, give him praise.